Questions about Tunnel Vision for RAC 2017

Chris told me to make a post on the forum, so I am.

Will ice blocks be added to the cannon chests on Tunnel Vision (since the water source blocks got deleted in the update from 1.7 to 1.8)?

and

What forms of victory running is legal (for all maps, but this question is most relevant for TV)? Do the wools need to remain on the monument? Can they be pushed on the monument with pistons? The ruleset or current map specific rules do not address either of these. If the wools need to remain on the monument, then what happens if they don’t, but the match ends anyway? Do you rematch on the same map, or maybe a different map? It wouldn’t make sense to give the other team the victory, because the wools can be cannoned off the monument by the opposing team even after the match ends, potentially giving the team who cannoned an easy win.

by Contranaut — posted in General Discussion
Matsuzen

There were no ice blocks in TV’s chests last year. I remember having this debate with you when we tried to both agree on a few changes on maps (like lapis on Erosion or Xerothermic, water in TV, etc) and the conclusion was that no changes should be made to any of the maps.

Ch4nM4n

We don’t have permission to edit Tunnel Vision. We didn’t change it last year, so it won’t be changed this year.

To prevent conflict, and using past tournament examples, players must place the objectives on the monument themselves. Using other means to place the objectives for your team won’t be permitted.

SkiTrip

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘to prevent conflict’. Only allowing objectives placed directly on the monument from the player’s inventory conflicts with AutoRef, the ruleset, and what Sprok said when the issue came up in Discord. (Paul was saying that using flying machines to place wool was illegal, then Ben pointed out that it was legal according the ruleset and Sprok implied that he was ok with it.)

Also saying ‘past tournament examples’ is pretty misleading. There’s only been one previous example (zz’s tournament), and the ruleset was worded more ambiguously back then.

If you’re going to use this ruling, then you should probably make that clear in the announcement post, because it is currently inconsistent with the rules you claim to be following in that post.

Ch4nM4n

We used the same rules for last year’s tournament in regards to the TV flying machines. Unfortunately without the old forums/old skype groups to double check, I cannot find the exact wording to reuse for this year.

The ruling will be added as a footnote to the announcement for the first round matches, especially since players probably won’t be checking the announcement post after signups closed. If you would like the rule to be exclusive for Tunnel Vision, that can happen, since I don’t think this situation is relevant to the other maps in the pool.

SkiTrip

It’s probably better to have a consistent ruling for all maps in the pool, and as you say it doesn’t really affect any of the maps other than Tunnel Vision.

Contranaut

Wait, even using pistons, players to place the objectives on the monument… just using a piston to push it into positon. The wool is still placed from inventory to the map using the player.

But assuming you change the wording so that you can’t use pistons to victory run, then does that apply to all maps, or just TV? Also I’m like 80% sure TV did have water on it in finals, you probably just used the version zz used for his tournament that had ice on it.

zzrules21

There’s such a huge difference between what I did for my tournament and what Chris/Sprok would have to do to update it for this tournament.

For starters, the version I used was specifically labeled Tunnel Vision TE, and the vod of the finals match definitely doesn’t say that. Secondly, I never provided a download to the version that I used, and I never submitted it to the repo. I provided downloads for my versions of Insomnia and Xerothermic because Ellie and DJ gave me permission to do so. However because we still haven’t been given permission to update Tunnel Vision, the only way to access my version of Tunnel Vision was during my tournament on my server. So no, I can guarantee you they didn’t use the version from my tournament.

To further emphasize the fact that there was definitely, without a doubt, no questions asked, no water in the finals, the version of the map that was played in the finals was version 1.1. This can be seen on the vod of the finals at the 1:01:58 timestamp (or in the handy screenshot Chris already linked). If you currently look at the AutoRef repository script, you can see that the version that is in the repo is also version 1.1. No matter how sure you think you are that there were ice blocks in the cannon chests, the facts make it clear that the version of the map that is currently in the repo is also the version that was used in the finals last year.

And just in case you try to make the argument that the organizers should make an update to add ice to the cannon chests anyway, we still don’t have permission to make any updates. Yeah sure, I made updates to the map anyway, but the only way to play those updates were to play them on my server. There were no downloads, it wasn’t submitted to the repo, there was no other way to access that version. And that was fine at the time, because the only server that was actually running AutoRef in 1.8 was mine. It was a small scale tournament that was meant to ease people into the idea of 1.8 and wasn’t meant to be too taken too seriously. Now look at this current tournament. It’s being advertised and marketed as the official annual championships with a prize pool. For the map to be used, it needs to be in the “official” AutoRef repo so that players all have access to the same version of the map. Updating the map in the repo for everybody to have access to would require permission to do so, which again, we don’t have.

Ch4nM4n

Please stop guessing what version you think we used. If you took the time to actually look you would have found it within seconds. http://i.imgur.com/5tPwx9I.png

Contranaut

Just because the version was 1.1 doesn’t mean there wasn’t water, you or Sprok could have manually added ice to all the cannons chests before the match started. So it’s anyone’s guess as to if the map had water or not, but I still vaguely remember there being ice in the chests. I skimmed through the vod and there’s no evidence as to whether or not cannon chests had ice.

But whatever, it doesn’t matter, if you don’t want to add water that’s fine. I really don’t think it’s a big deal to add ice to the cannon chests, seeing as it’s just mirroring the 1.7 version of TV as closely as possible, but whatever it’s your choice. I don’t see why everyone has to get mad at me for saying I thought there might be ice when you said there definitely wasn’t, when no one really knows anyway.

Ch4nM4n

AutoRef doesn’t let you edit chest contents (both adding and removing items) as a spectator in GM 3 or GM1. Nor does it allow you to put a hopper above the chests and throw ice into it. You need to be on a team and have the match started to change it.

If we had added ice to a separate version, we would have named it a different version than 1.1 (either 1.2 or 1.1 TE probably), but like I said already, we don’t have permission to edit the map.

We know we didn’t add ice, you are simply refusing to believe what happened, and yet still push the issue without evidence to support your claim. You’ve asked about the ice several times now and I’ve had to give you the same answer each time, I shouldn’t have to repeat myself time and time again.

Contranaut

I just said twice that if you don’t want to add ice it’s fine, it’s your decision. I’m not pushing the issue at all. All we’re doing is arguing about whether or not there was ice in the last tournament, which doesn’t matter at all as far as this tournament is concerned.

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